Carb Nite Solution diet for vegetarians (lacto/ovo).

[CoryMcC]

Maybe this will interest some of you, and maybe spark some conversation or critique.

This is a sample day CNS diet for a vegetarian (lacto/ovo), based on Keifer's high-cal day sample diets in the book.  This is approx. what I eat, thought it varies a bit, here and there.  I included my training schedule, below, to show the accompanying work.

I do not use non-fermented soy sources of protein, like tofu (due to the anti-nutrients), and the fermented products, like tempeh, contain too many carbs to protein.  My main protein sources are 1% cottage cheese, cheddar cheese, whole eggs, egg whites, and whey.  Protein is also obtained, in a peripheral fashion, from various other items in the diet (like spinach).

This menu does not show spices / seasoning, which can be added to taste (like Turmeric / Salt to eggs).

Any suggestions?  Additions?  Subtractions?  Changes?  I am vegetarian (for over 10 years), so that aspect won't change.  Furthermore, I've grown muscle just fine as a vegetarian, and I take a whole foods multi-vitamin / multi-mineral every day.  My dietary health isn't lacking.

This is day three on the diet, and thus far I've lost just over 2 lbs.  I am sure the bulk of that is water / glyco weight, at this point.

...............................
Upon waking (8:30am)
1 tsp instant coffee (or 1 cup)
1 tbsp heavy whipping cream

Meal 1 (~11:30am)
2 large whole eggs
2 egg whites (6 tbsps liquid egg whites)
1 tbsp heavy whipping cream
1.5oz cheddar cheese (1.5 x 1" cubes)
1/2 scoop whey protein isolate (Bodytech)
1 rounded tsp psyllium husk powder

Meal 2 (~2:30pm)
2 large whole eggs
1 scoop whey protein isolate (Bodytech)
1 cup decaf. coffee, club soda or herbal green tea

Meal 3 (~5:30pm)
1.5 cups spinach (150g)
3/4 cup 1% cottage cheese
1oz cheddar cheese (1 x 1" cube)
1 scoop whey protein isolate (Bodytech)
2.5 tbsp omega 3-6-9 oil (Now Foods)
2 tbsp parmesan cheese

Pre-training
1 tsp instant coffee
1.5 tbsp coconut oil
1.5 tbsp heavy whipping cream
1.5g Carnitine
8g Glutamine
3g Arginine
5g Creatine

Intra-training
5g Creatine
3 scoops Modern BCAA's (USP Labs)
Pinch of salt

Meal 4 (post-training)
2 scoop whey protein isolate (Bodytech)
5g Creatine
6 scoops Modern BCAA's (USP Labs)
10g Glutamine

Meal 5 - Dinner (1-hour post-training)
3/4 cup 1% cottage cheese
1.5oz cheddar cheese (1.5 x 1" cubes)
1 tbsp omega 3-6-9 oil (Now Foods)
1.5 rounded tsp  psyllium husk powder

Meal 6 - Bedtime Snack (2-hours post-dinner)
1 tbsp heavy whipping cream
1 scoop whey protein isolate (Bodytech)

DAILY MACRO TOTALS:
159.75g fat
42.25g carbs / 26.5g USABLE carbs
246g protein (approx. 1.3g/lb lean bodyweight)
16.75g fiber
...............................
My training, recently modified, looks like this:

Monday - Kyokushin basics (2-hours)
Tuesday - Kyokushin basics, pads and sparring (2-hours)
Wednesday - Chest / Back (weights - 25 sets total)
Thursday - Quads / Hams / Glutes / Calves (weights - 21 sets total)
Friday - Kyokushin basics, pads and sparring (2-hours)
Saturday - Delts / Traps / Biceps / Triceps / Forearms (weights - 24 sets total)
Sunday - Complete rest
...............................


Cory

[Trevorxgage]

First thing, you need more fat.
You want a 1:1 ratio by gram of fat and protein.

Also... I don't really think you need 250g of protein...
I know a lot of people say 1g per lean BW but I think
for some people that just ends up being to much.
at 195 I eat 130-160 depending on the day, I used to eat 190-200g
a day and I felt like crap, started to add fat, and wasn't getting any extra increase in strength.

[Dmunnee]

agree with Trevor.  Why are you taking the BCAA's pre-training?  All that's going to do is spike your insulin.

[CoryMcC]

Agreed.

I removed the intra-workout BCAA's, and didn't have any pre-workout.

Intra-workout now looks like this:

5g Creatine
Pinch of salt

To increase the fat, I am using a version of Bulletproof Coffee in the AM:

Upon waking (8:30am)
2 tsp instant coffee (yeilds 2 cups)
2 tbsp butter
1 tbsp coconut oil

...then I wait about 2.5 to 3 hours until my first meal.

Could I replace the butter with Heavy Cream (4 tbsp)?  That would be equal in fats.  Also, should I increase the coconut oil up to 2 tbsp or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks.

[Naomi Most]

This is very cool.  I'm happy to see a discussion of vegetarian usage of the CNS diet.

I'm confused by the appearance of egg whites -- I'd encourage using whole eggs whenever possible -- but the addition of fats to that meal could even it out. I'm guessing that's a convenience thing?

You should definitely lower the protein, there's no way you need 240g of protein per day, even if you weigh 200lbs or more.

I hope you're getting a bit more vegetable matter than you wrote in here.  Bell peppers, onions, etc... That's one of those aspects of diet that catches up to you sooner or later, and I'm not just referring to the fiber.

[Trevorxgage]

If you handle the cream, you could swap them out.
I have heard people say butter works better and makes them feel better.

I can't handle casein so cream makes me feel like utter shit, haha.

[Intensity Junkie]

Haha a vegetarian diet with not enough veggies

[CoryMcC]

Thank you all for your replies!  I would've thought someone would've covered a Vegetarian (or even Vegan) topic by now.

I am def. swapping out the butter for heavy cream.  It is faster, and I don't have any issues with digesting it.  The macros (fats) are precisely the same (4 tbsp heavy cream = 2 tbsp butter).

I could swap out the egg whites for whole eggs.  Keifer had included some egg whites in his sample menus from the CNS book, and I was following some of his examples when crafting my diet.

As for the protein, I know not to go above 1.3g/lb lean bodyweight, but I guess I was just trying to keep it as close to that as possible (I am still under the influence of classic bodybuilding diets).  That said, if you check page 181 of the CNS book -- that particular meal plan has 220g of protein, with only 127g fat (approx. 37% fat and 63% protein), not 50/50 or 1:1, not even that close.  In fact, a number of the sample diets are over 200g protein for the day.

As for veggies... I should add more.  I currently only have that one meal, with 150g of spinach (1 1/2 cups).  I am just trying to keep the usable carbs in check.  That said, I do take 2 one-a-day multi-vitamin / multi-mineral supps, per day.


Cory

[Trevorxgage]

One thing you have to keep in mind about the CNS book is that it is old.
They are planning on re-releasing newer versions soon, but until then a lot
of the new information that has come out will be different from what was said in that book.

Go whole eggs all the way.
Hell, toss the whites and eat more yokes! haha
Keeping your fat calorie intake higher keeps your body from
shifting to protein for fuel which will keep you from breaking down muscle all the time.

[CoryMcC]

I'll toss the 2 whites for 2 more whole eggs.

Hopefully, they will release an "Amazon" hard-copy of the CBL book, too.  I'd like to say I can afford $80, but in reality, I cannot... $20-30 (like the CNS book), or even $40, would be doable.  I am just on a tight budget, but I'd like to buy a copy, if I could.  I am sure others would agree, and be on top of buying a hardcopy, as well.


Cory

[ibobland08]

I would imagine the CBL hard copy would be more expensive than the eBook.

[CoryMcC]

@ ibobland:

Possibly.  I remember seeing copies of Carb Nite solution floating around for $50-ish, at one time.  I have a 2012 reissue, and I got it for $20.99 at Amazon (new).  Literally, the back page of my book says it was printed on April 15, 2012.

I guess it depends on production amount, etc.


Cory

[ibobland08]

Are you serious?  I bought the Carb Nite ebook for $15 two months ago on Kiefer's website.

[Naomi Most]

Hah!  That's crazy.  Trust me, we have NO control over how Amazon prices things.

Sometimes, book-selling 'bots get into bidding price wars, no human intervention/intelligence involved.  So you end up with hilarious stuff like this:

http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358

@ ibobland:

Possibly.  I remember seeing copies of Carb Nite solution floating around for $50-ish, at one time.  I have a 2012 reissue, and I got it for $20.99 at Amazon (new).  Literally, the back page of my book says it was printed on April 15, 2012.

I guess it depends on production amount, etc.


Cory

[CoryMcC]

Hah!  That's crazy.  Trust me, we have NO control over how Amazon prices things.

Sometimes, book-selling 'bots get into bidding price wars, no human intervention/intelligence involved.  So you end up with hilarious stuff like this:

http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358

@ ibobland:

Possibly.  I remember seeing copies of Carb Nite solution floating around for $50-ish, at one time.  I have a 2012 reissue, and I got it for $20.99 at Amazon (new).  Literally, the back page of my book says it was printed on April 15, 2012.

I guess it depends on production amount, etc.


Cory

That is a crazy-priced book!  I guess Amazon is kind of random?  Is there any logic?

Oh, well.  $15 for eBook is fine, but I don't mind paying the extra $5-ish for a hard copy.  I prefer real books, never got into the whole "e" thing... I don't even use mp3 players --  I still enjoy popping CDs into a stereo or walkman.  I'm weird, I know.  Guess I am a more 'tactile' person.