Question about CBL fat-loss

[DwightManganaro]

I am currently doing a 6 month cycle of Carb Nite but I had a question about Carb Back-Loading with regards to the Strength Accumulation protocol since it focuses on gaining strength while losing fat.  In the Carb Nite book Keifer mentions that "The Carb NiteŽ Solution targets fat cells and is the only diet that creates the magic combination of hormone levels that can actually kill fat cells."  Does the Strength Accumulation Protocol from Carb Back-Loading achieve the same combination of hormone levels to kill fat cells?  If so, then I'm buying a first class ticket to the Wonka Factory after my next deadlift session  .  If not though then I'll finish this 6 month cycle of Carb Nite to keep on killing the fat cells before moving onto Carb Back-Loading.

[gabex]

I thought a cell would never be 'killed', only shrunk.  I hadn't realized Kiefer stated this was possible through diet.  Can we get some details on this?

[Chris]

I would love to hear how it kills fat cells, i was under the impression it just shrunk them.

but i think the idea of CNS and Strength Accumulation are basically the same only, Strength Accumulation has heavy weights added allowing more carbs to be eaten.

[DwightManganaro]

Yes, he specifically stated on page 42 of The Carb Nite Solution that the hormonal environment created by Carb Nite can lead the body to kill fat cells.  Its also stated on the Carb Nite homepage under the "Fight Fat and Win" portion.  I'm really hoping that Carb Back-Loading creates that same environment, but I'm expecting that it doesn't.

[DwightManganaro]

It would be great if Naomi or Keifer could shed some light on this.  They are probably the only two who could.

[gabex]

I'm interested in the actual evidence that fat cells can be killed through diet.

[Intensity Junkie]

Fat cells are a horrible evil thing... they pretty much have a life cycle that never ends... they are almost impossible to "kill"

First they can be emptied, by dieting and using their stores fat as energy. That fat cell is still hanging out just waiting for you to slip up.

After some time they shrink, which will allow you to trim down further.

After long periods of time it is possible to have them expire.

I wonder if the old body builder tricks could help when on carbnite. Yohimbee HCL used topically is an old trick to tighten up areas. Natural guys this is, the pros use stuff like Helios and other inject-able  underground lab stuff that scares me.

[Coffeeandchalkdust]

As I understand it the theory goes like this:  Leptin and insulin levels are typically coupled together. When one is elevated the other is too.  A carb nite creates an exception to this where the huge intake of carbs causes a spike in insulin that lasts only a short time.  The leptin boost lasts quite a bit longer though, creating a signal for already depleted fat cells to empty further. Apparently some animal research ( I couldn't find the citation in the book) shows that this can cause some fat cells to be killed off.  Keifer states that this combination of low insulin and high leptin levels is extremely rare, and that "artificially" creating this environment MAY lead to the death of fat cells.   I suppose whether this is the case after the nightly backloads would depend on how high leptin levels remain on the following morning?   

[gabex]

That's definitely interesting.  I haven't read Carb Nite, but it doesn't sound like CBL would do the same. 

The reason why killing fat cells would be so attractive to dieters is that it would greatly reduce the likeliness (or even extent) that they would gain fat again, especially when 'bulking'.

As someone who was skinny, then fat, then skinny fat, and then several bulk fails later, just got lean.. that's what brought me to CBL.

[Coffeeandchalkdust]

Yeah. I'm definitely interested in it too. I'd also like to read more about what Keifer calls "epigenetics" and what relationship exists between the two.

 My "superhero (in training) origin story" is a bit different from yours Gabe in that I was morbidly obese growing up.  (If Keifer had banana titties, mine were banana boats...) . Putting on muscle has never been difficult for me, but getting or staying lean has, especially if trying to keep or gain strength at the same time.

THAT is what I find so useful about Keifer's methods.

[Intensity Junkie]

Yeah. I'm definitely interested in it too. I'd also like to read more about what Keifer calls "epigenetics" and what relationship exists between the two.

 My "superhero (in training) origin story" is a bit different from yours Gabe in that I was morbidly obese growing up.  (If Keifer had banana titties, mine were banana boats...) . Putting on muscle has never been difficult for me, but getting or staying lean has, especially if trying to keep or gain strength at the same time.

THAT is what I find so useful about Keifer's methods.

Preach brotha preach lol... completely with you I was over 300 growing up. no beuno.

[Naomi Most]

Yeah. I'm definitely interested in it too. I'd also like to read more about what Keifer calls "epigenetics" and what relationship exists between the two.

lol he didn't invent the term. 

Epigenetics refers to the ability of the chemical environment of DNA to "switch on" or "switch off" the production of proteins and enzymes expressed by various parts of DNA.  The end result of this switching process is, in effect, a very different cell -- and thus a very different body.

Examples of chemical environment changes that directly effect DNA expression:

PCBs and other pollutants

phytoestrogens (e.g. from soy)

vitamins in various concentrations (e.g. vitamin E accelerates cell turnover rate which is why it's "good for healing" but also seems to cause cancer...)

lactic acid

antioxidants

... and lots more.


The reason that you can cause apoptosis is *briefly* explained in Carb Nite and backed up by about a dozen references listed in the book.

(While I find this topic fascinating and could chat about it all day -- and actually is one of the main reasons Kiefer and I starting talking and became friends! -- I gotta scoot to a dentist appointment)

[Coffeeandchalkdust]

Yeah. I'm definitely interested in it too. I'd also like to read more about what Keifer calls "epigenetics" and what relationship exists between the two.

lol he didn't invent the term. 

Epigenetics refers to the ability of the chemical environment of DNA to "switch on" or "switch off" the production of proteins and enzymes expressed by various parts of DNA.  The end result of this switching process is, in effect, a very different cell -- and thus a very different body.

Examples of chemical environment changes that directly effect DNA expression:

PCBs and other pollutants

phytoestrogens (e.g. from soy)

vitamins in various concentrations (e.g. vitamin E accelerates cell turnover rate which is why it's "good for healing" but also seems to cause cancer...)

lactic acid

antioxidants

... and lots more.


The reason that you can cause apoptosis is *briefly* explained in Carb Nite and backed up by about a dozen references listed in the book.

(While I find this topic fascinating and could chat about it all day -- and actually is one of the main reasons Kiefer and I starting talking and became friends! -- I gotta scoot to a dentist appointment)

Haha. Poor choice of words on my part.  Only meant to imply I hadn't heard the term from anyone else before I saw Keifer use it, though I've heard people hint at the concept in pretty broad strokes.

Your explanation is succinct and helpful, thanks.

[Coffeeandchalkdust]

 
Preach brotha preach lol... completely with you I was over 300 growing up. no beuno.
[/quote]

Yeah.  Not a lot of fun being a porker growing up.

 I have sustained a +100 lb weight loss for close to a decade now. ( There has been some fluctuation: Highest all time weight was over 350, but I don't know exactly 370 is my best guess, lowest all time was 190 -actually for about 5 minutes one tuesday afternoon  a few years ago I weighed 185 now that I think about it- currently walking around at about 215 at close to the same degree of leanness I had at 190)
Apparently this puts us into some pretty elite company according to the obesity researchers...

[Intensity Junkie]

Nice very nice... yeah I was maybe 320 and went down to 175. I looked like a sack of bones. Then built up from there, now 225. If only I was just a gym person in High School lol